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The defense on the Marshall bucket.

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    Stereotypical Asian Guy AztecWildcat's Avatar
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    Default The defense on the Marshall bucket.

    As many of you know I have zero tactical knowledge of BB based on my zero years of experience playing organized ball.

    So this is an honest question here and I'm not trying to attack TJ but what is he doing? He tries to step in front of Marshall then steps away? Is that what he was supposed to do and if so why?

    Thanks.

    The below link will start the video from the point Marshall begins his drive.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy3mn...u.be&t=2h9m50s
    I blame ESPN, PAC-12 Network, Larry Scott, East Coast Bias, Direct TV, Dish Network, The Honda Center, PAC-12 Refs, and Mark Lyons

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    I think he was showing inside to try dissuade Marshall from driving, but realized he couldnt get far enough over to do anything so he went back to his man in case of a dish. If Nick had been able to force Marshall a bit more outside TJ couldve helped, but Marshall pretty much went straight down the lane, not much TJ could do there.

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    I wanna know why he would go to the basket to volley the ball for their big to spike it on the last shoot? He made that same play two times before and jump shoot it and made it.

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    Stereotypical Asian Guy AztecWildcat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Applequest View Post
    I think he was showing inside to try dissuade Marshall from driving, but realized he couldnt get far enough over to do anything so he went back to his man in case of a dish. If Nick had been able to force Marshall a bit more outside TJ couldve helped, but Marshall pretty much went straight down the lane, not much TJ could do there.
    I see. Thanks.
    I blame ESPN, PAC-12 Network, Larry Scott, East Coast Bias, Direct TV, Dish Network, The Honda Center, PAC-12 Refs, and Mark Lyons

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    Originally Posted by AztecWildcat View Post
    As many of you know I have zero tactical knowledge of BB based on my zero years of experience playing organized ball.

    So this is an honest question here and I'm not trying to attack TJ but what is he doing? He tries to step in front of Marshall then steps away? Is that what he was supposed to do and if so why?

    Thanks.

    The below link will start the video from the point Marshall begins his drive.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy3mn...u.be&t=2h9m50s
    Good question. First time I've seen the replay. Unless it's flat out blatant, it's difficult to blame someone for making a "mistake" on help defense in late, single-possession situation, but if I had to single someone out, I don't think it's TJ. I'd like to know what in the world AG was doing. As athletic as he is, he didn't make ANY effort to block the shot from the weak side. He came in, looked like he was going to jump, and just stopped and watched.

    Maybe he just doesn't have good shot-blocking instincts, but I don't understand why he's not a better shot blocker. He's long and athletic, and has extremely quick first, second, and third jumps. Doesn't make much sense to me.

    Either way, past is past. There are 25 things they could've done differently to win that game. Hell, watch the 2nd-to-last possession where TJ gets blocked; Rondae was WIDE F*CKING OPEN on the baseline. TJ could've dropped it to him or even lobbed it up near the rim, and Rondae gets an easy dunk or layup. Hindsight 20/20.

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    Wildcat Fan Azwldctfan's Avatar
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    The real question is why is Kaleb so slow to leave Bachynski at the three point line? Fell for the trick.

    Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk

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    Baltimore Blowfish TraneofThought's Avatar
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    While we're discussing that play, I'd just like to say I think it was an awful decision to put Nick back on Marshall there. Granted, Marshall ran Rondae off screens on the two possessions he made the threes, but Rondae had basically locked him up the entire 2nd half. He took the drive away from Marshall, and asu didn't need a three on that possession. I think it makes sense to leave Rondae on him there, especially since Marshall had basically abused Nick on straight-line drives all game.

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    Baltimore Blowfish TraneofThought's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Azwldctfan View Post
    The real question is why is Kaleb so slow to leave Bachynski at the three point line? Fell for the trick.

    Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk
    This too.

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    Originally Posted by TraneofThought View Post
    While we're discussing that play, I'd just like to say I think it was an awful decision to put Nick back on Marshall there. Granted, Marshall ran Rondae off screens on the two possessions he made the threes, but Rondae had basically locked him up the entire 2nd half. He took the drive away from Marshall, and asu didn't need a three on that possession. I think it makes sense to leave Rondae on him there, especially since Marshall had basically abused Nick on straight-line drives all game.
    Yep, obviously hindsight is 20-20 but I feel the exact same way. Marshall mustve been drooling when he saw NJ back on him.

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    Stereotypical Asian Guy AztecWildcat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TraneofThought View Post
    While we're discussing that play, I'd just like to say I think it was an awful decision to put Nick back on Marshall there. Granted, Marshall ran Rondae off screens on the two possessions he made the threes, but Rondae had basically locked him up the entire 2nd half. He took the drive away from Marshall, and asu didn't need a three on that possession. I think it makes sense to leave Rondae on him there, especially since Marshall had basically abused Nick on straight-line drives all game.
    Damn. I didn't even think about that. My friend always tells me that he actually think Nick's defense isn't that great and he gets beat a lot. Hard for me to tell, since I'm not trained.
    I blame ESPN, PAC-12 Network, Larry Scott, East Coast Bias, Direct TV, Dish Network, The Honda Center, PAC-12 Refs, and Mark Lyons

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    Wildcat Fan moosety2008's Avatar
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    After looking at bachynski's block, it's clear the ball had just began its downward trajectory. That was technically a goaltend. Not that it matters, and it's difficult to call that given the pace of the game and the impact a call like that would have had. But I promise if this was anywhere in the first-late stages of the second, that would have been called a goal tend.

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    Originally Posted by TraneofThought View Post
    While we're discussing that play, I'd just like to say I think it was an awful decision to put Nick back on Marshall there. Granted, Marshall ran Rondae off screens on the two possessions he made the threes, but Rondae had basically locked him up the entire 2nd half. He took the drive away from Marshall, and asu didn't need a three on that possession. I think it makes sense to leave Rondae on him there, especially since Marshall had basically abused Nick on straight-line drives all game.
    Yeah. Nick played phenomenal D on this play and Marshall still took him all the way to the basket. Rondae was doing a great job--can't even blame him for those two big 3's Marshall hit in OT, since those were well-contested shots coming off screens.

    Anyway, I don't really feel like splitting hairs about our D. We're the best defensive team in the country [at least per kenpom]. If we had one guy with the instincts to put the ball in the basket on the other end we'd be undefeated.

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    I agree with Trane that AG could have easily blocked that layup. As Calipari said after James Young missed the blockout on that crazy put back jam, "He stopped and watched. He's a freshman, that's what they do."

    And it's painful to watch both Rondae and Zeus wide open on the last play. Zeus dunks it and Rondae probably gets fouled. Live and learn.

    p.s. great topic and discussion
    "It's all basketball oriented," Aaron Gordon on why he chose Arizona.

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    Originally Posted by Pras View Post
    I agree with Trane that AG could have easily blocked that layup. As Calipari said after James Young missed the blockout on that crazy put back jam, "He stopped and watched. He's a freshman, that's what they do."

    And it's painful to watch both Rondae and Zeus wide open on the last play. Zeus dunks it and Rondae probably gets fouled. Live and learn.

    p.s. great topic and discussion
    AG had a lot of "freshman" plays late in the game - certainly the reach-out-and-grab-the-guy-for-no-reason-so-he-hits-2-FTs play counts...

    As for TJ's decision there, I called it out in another thread the day after the game. TJ has to know that the guy who already has 7 blocks in the game would be amped and waiting for him to put it up, and that at least one of the bigs would be wide open once he got into the paint. How many games have we already won this year on late drive-and-dish plays with Rondae finishing inside to tie or take the lead? Two? Three?

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    Wildcat Fan gyagade3's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JS Esq. View Post
    AG had a lot of "freshman" plays late in the game - certainly the reach-out-and-grab-the-guy-for-no-reason-so-he-hits-2-FTs play counts...
    If you notice AG and Zeus were on a switch and Gordon was talking to Zeus to switch back. Zeus wasn't paying attention and both of them were about to leave him (forgot who it was exactly) wide open and cutting across the key (even though he was going to set a screen he would have been wide open)...it would have been an easy lay in if Gordon didn't foul him so I was ok with it. It was just a lack of communication to me

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    Wildcat Fan gyagade3's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AztecWildcat View Post
    Damn. I didn't even think about that. My friend always tells me that he actually think Nick's defense isn't that great and he gets beat a lot. Hard for me to tell, since I'm not trained.
    As much as I do think Nick is a good defender, his weakness is when he plays up on a guy too far, he is prone to get beat by the better players. I think before you wouldn't see Nick get beat as much because after an offensive player would get around Nick, he would see Zeus, Gordon and/or Ashley in the paint. Not the best combination to see. But now you only see maybe Zeus with AG but most likely just Zeus (and in the late game situation zero because of the lack of help defense) and that is much easier to score on.

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    Originally Posted by JS Esq. View Post
    AG had a lot of "freshman" plays late in the game - certainly the reach-out-and-grab-the-guy-for-no-reason-so-he-hits-2-FTs play counts...

    As for TJ's decision there, I called it out in another thread the day after the game. TJ has to know that the guy who already has 7 blocks in the game would be amped and waiting for him to put it up, and that at least one of the bigs would be wide open once he got into the paint. How many games have we already won this year on late drive-and-dish plays with Rondae finishing inside to tie or take the lead? Two? Three?
    He actually missed one or both FTs when AG fouled jah...

    side note
    I only remember that because Hazzard high fived a bench member going GOOD FOUL
    (I was in the 4th row next to the student section)

    TJ had a bad/good game. He scored but some key plays were bad executed plays.

    We know we are better than that, we will crush in Vegas.

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    Originally Posted by gyagade3 View Post
    If you notice AG and Zeus were on a switch and Gordon was talking to Zeus to switch back. Zeus wasn't paying attention and both of them were about to leave him (forgot who it was exactly) wide open and cutting across the key (even though he was going to set a screen he would have been wide open)...it would have been an easy lay in if Gordon didn't foul him so I was ok with it. It was just a lack of communication to me
    I get what you're saying, but it seems like AG still could have moved his feet to salvage the play defensively. I'd have to watch it again to be sure, but it really seemed at the time like it was an unnecessary foul. And just because the guy would have been open doesn't mean ASU would have actually gotten him the ball, or that the defense wouldn't have recovered in time to contest a shot/force another pass.

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    Originally Posted by TraneofThought View Post
    While we're discussing that play, I'd just like to say I think it was an awful decision to put Nick back on Marshall there. Granted, Marshall ran Rondae off screens on the two possessions he made the threes, but Rondae had basically locked him up the entire 2nd half. He took the drive away from Marshall, and asu didn't need a three on that possession. I think it makes sense to leave Rondae on him there, especially since Marshall had basically abused Nick on straight-line drives all game.
    This.
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    Wildcat Fan ffcatfan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AztecWildcat View Post
    As many of you know I have zero tactical knowledge of BB based on my zero years of experience playing organized ball.

    So this is an honest question here and I'm not trying to attack TJ but what is he doing? He tries to step in front of Marshall then steps away? Is that what he was supposed to do and if so why?

    Thanks.

    The below link will start the video from the point Marshall begins his drive.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy3mn...u.be&t=2h9m50s
    We should not have even been in that position. The bigger defensive letdown was when Marshall hit two 3's with time running down. The last one looked exactly like the last shot Ohio St took against us last year in the sweet 16. Kaleb didn't step out on the screen just like Grant didn't last year. It was frustrating to watch, the whole game really. I really hope they break out of this slump before the tournament, and figure who they are with the setbacks we've experienced. I know they can do it, Bear Down!

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    Originally Posted by JS Esq. View Post
    I get what you're saying, but it seems like AG still could have moved his feet to salvage the play defensively. I'd have to watch it again to be sure, but it really seemed at the time like it was an unnecessary foul. And just because the guy would have been open doesn't mean ASU would have actually gotten him the ball, or that the defense wouldn't have recovered in time to contest a shot/force another pass.
    Very good point considering ASU was content with passing the ball around the perimeter at the time. I just don't like the idea of a guy unguarded running through the key

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    Wildcat Fan Statman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by moosety2008 View Post
    After looking at bachynski's block, it's clear the ball had just began its downward trajectory. That was technically a goaltend. Not that it matters, and it's difficult to call that given the pace of the game and the impact a call like that would have had. But I promise if this was anywhere in the first-late stages of the second, that would have been called a goal tend.
    I replayed it like 5 times looking for a goaltend - I couldn't tell at all, so I guess I thought it was clean.

    Since you are the first I've seen post that you thought it was a goaltend - I'm guessing most are in the same boat as myself. If it was one of those "definite goaltend calls anytime else in the game" type plays - man, it woulda been talked to death on every board.

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    Originally Posted by Statman View Post
    I replayed it like 5 times looking for a goaltend - I couldn't tell at all, so I guess I thought it was clean.

    Since you are the first I've seen post that you thought it was a goaltend - I'm guessing most are in the same boat as myself. If it was one of those "definite goaltend calls anytime else in the game" type plays - man, it woulda been talked to death on every board.
    Live, i thought it was a goaltend. On replay, not so much.

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