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Hero ball

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    Aztec Warriors Internal Malfunction's Avatar
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    Default Hero ball

    Can anyone take a stab at the reason we've been playing hero ball the last two games? Is it the other team? Press? NBA bug? Circles of influence?

    Tonight, almost every time we took an in rhythm shot within the flow of our offense, something good happened. We can't play hero ball and shoot poorly from the line and expect to win many more of these.

    Lastly, thank you NJ. If anyone could rightfully play hero ball out there it would be you, yet you refuse to do so.
    If you disagree with me, you are either a racist, a homophobe, or most likely, both.

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    I agree. Nick should bring up this issue with the team. The last 2 games gordon tried to have a quick start and costing the team to play behind

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    it's contagious, I'm not going to point fingers, but you see it start with one person than soon enough you see another and then another. For instance, at the beginning of the game zeus decided he was going to go shaq and muscle his way to the hoop and didn't even draw iron, it was ugly and forced and all of you know it. Everyone knew there was a chance this was going to start happening the closer the end of the season came, I just honestly thought this team was above that. Maybe Sean has a master plan or he's letting the guys work it out, but I catch myself wondering when sean is going to step in and set ninjas straight.

    we didn't lose, but it sure feels like it.

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    It really leaves a sour taste after a win at Palo Alto with UA chants.

    Sean Miller and NJ to have a talk with the freshmen.

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    Miller touched on this in a Presser prior to the Colorado game. He mentioned that we were 16-1 at the same point in the previous season, and things went sour quickly because players started looking more at their professional aspirations than the team goals. I am guessing this is the time of the year the chirping in players ears get turned up a notch and players start pressing trying to get stats and going away from the team concept.

    He did mention that he strongly believes it wont be anywhere close to as big an issue with this years group, due to our chemistry and how well we had bought into the team concept till that point, but the play since then has told a different story.

    Nothing can derail this team quicker than one or two guys consistently trying to get theirs and forcing the issue instead of playing within the team concept. Our defense is still relentless, and we had 12 assists on 18 FG's tonight, which is nowhere near awful as far as sharing the ball goes if just looking at those numbers, but we can all see something is just a bit off these last few games and this hero ball is probably a main culprit.

    That said, Millers teams peak in March and I have no reason to believe this team will be any different. We're in the grind it out days of a long college basketball season. We can't play perfect or near perfect every time out. We will stumble, every team does. All that matters is how we respond and that we take the correct steps to make sure stumbling doesn't turn into a reoccurring theme down the stretch. Still a whole lot of basketball to play.

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    Wildcat Fan PresidenteYayo's Avatar
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    Default Hero ball

    Of course they want to get Aaron going... Like it's been stated, they need to let their one and done grow in order to get more high caliber type players in the future. They played a bad game as far as field goal percentage go and if they knocked down ft's at even 70% we win by 10 and everyone is still on the wagon. It is extremely hard to win on the road and you all act like you don't know that

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    Originally Posted by PresidenteYayo View Post
    Of course they want to get Aaron going... Like it's been stated, they need to let their one and done grow in order to get more high caliber type players in the future. They played a bad game as far as field goal percentage go and if they knocked down ft's at even 70% we win by 10 and everyone is still on the wagon. It is extremely hard to win on the road and you all act like you don't know that
    yeah the road whooped our ass.

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    Norcal Ninjas bengcord3's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
    it's contagious, I'm not going to point fingers, but you see it start with one person than soon enough you see another and then another. For instance, at the beginning of the game zeus decided he was going to go shaq and muscle his way to the hoop and didn't even draw iron, it was ugly and forced and all of you know it. Everyone knew there was a chance this was going to start happening the closer the end of the season came, I just honestly thought this team was above that. Maybe Sean has a master plan or he's letting the guys work it out, but I catch myself wondering when sean is going to step in and set ninjas straight.

    we didn't lose, but it sure feels like it.
    of all people, you are calling Zeus out for hero ball?

    GTFO

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    Coach Miller

    I read an article tonight about the Wildcats which ended by stating that AG was the most complete player on the team. Clearly that distinction belongs to either Nick or TJ. All the national-level hype about AG is ridiculous and not at all helpful to the team. Why do these sports writers get so hot and bothered over freshmen players?

    I'm glad AG is on the team, and he's great at what he does well, but he won't be a complete, well-rounded player until he develops a better shot. It was crazy how wide open Stanford was able to leave him on the perimeter.

    Some of what we saw tonight was just guys wanting to get something going; passing the ball around the perimeter doesn't score you any points.

    I don't think our guys were playing selfishly. More like impatiently.
    "Happiness begins where selfishness ends." - Bill Walton

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    Originally Posted by bengcord3 View Post
    of all people, you are calling Zeus out for hero ball?

    GTFO
    your reading comprehension sux, others started the hero ball chain reaction not zeus, but what zeus did was totally uncharacteristic of anything I've seen zeus do this season and I have to attribute it to what other did before him. He was more of an example of what happens to your teammates when you play hero ball. Essentially he watched 4-5 previous possessions where teammates decided they were going to create their own shots and failed miserably, so he said **** it and tried it himself.

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    Sports writers have to do whatever gets views. Saying anything about Aaron Gordon gets a lot more views than talking about anyone else, sadly.

    I think hero ball is a natural development of being undefeated. You start to think you're going to win every game, and if you're going to win, you might as well try to get yours. I think a loss would put an end to it pretty quick, if the team chemistry is as good as advertised.
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    Jordin Mayes might be the very definition of hero ball that last game and i think he played once?
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    hello? how has nobody even mentioned rondae's name yet?

    him. and aaron. time and time again. i was beside myself, wondering how rondae, especially, wasnt told to knock that sh*t off. he had 6-7 just wild drives to the hoop. multiple times where he and ag couldve had easy dump off passes for an easy 2. passes that were routinely made earlier in the season. it was weird and frustrating to see.

    zeus barely ever get's the ball anymore. i can understand him putting up one contested shot. it's kind of amazing to me how hard he is still playing, considering the extremely low number of touches he gets. he did get that rebound that lead to the NJ 3. nothing but props to zeus.
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    I was screaming at RHJ throughout that entire game....and if you're going to go wild and toss junk at the hoop hoping to get fouled, guess what....you better make your damn FT's! I said in a comment yesterday we would lose in the near future if we shot 55'60% from the line like last night, got damn lucky. The only good thing about Gordon doing this is he may realize how fricking bad his jump shot is right now....play to your strengths!

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    I was ok with Rondae because at least he was drawing fouls. But felt like there were times Aaron could have dished it and gotten us some dunks... Pretty ugly shooting the last few games.

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    Originally Posted by jmoon View Post
    hello? how has nobody even mentioned rondae's name yet?

    him. and aaron. time and time again. i was beside myself, wondering how rondae, especially, wasnt told to knock that sh*t off. he had 6-7 just wild drives to the hoop. multiple times where he and ag couldve had easy dump off passes for an easy 2. passes that were routinely made earlier in the season. it was weird and frustrating to see.

    zeus barely ever get's the ball anymore. i can understand him putting up one contested shot. it's kind of amazing to me how hard he is still playing, considering the extremely low number of touches he gets. he did get that rebound that lead to the NJ 3. nothing but props to zeus.
    Totally agree. That last offensive rebound was the most crucial one and we got it thx to Zeus. I think he was somehow frustrated and his 2 defensive fouls were same and he coud have easily avoided it. Yet, I don't blame him because he is really ambitious for the team.

    And Rondae, don't get me started. I love him, but please RHJ please! Slow down, involve your big bros into the game as well.

    It also reminded of IgGy telling how players want to show themselves more when the game is nationally televised. He spoke for his own team but that could have affected our guys as well. I am expecting a real AZ at Cal game.

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    When I saw AG shoot that air ball three, it pretty much set a tone for what was to come, and it came.

    The team needs to let TJ do his job period. It's worked all season. I don't want to see RHJ get a rebound on the defensive end and drive the ball all the way back and transition for a hero score again, it looks sloppy at best most of the time. The ONLY person that should get the green light for hero ball is TJ, if he can't find the perfect option I want him shooting it.

    This offense has and should continue to flow through TJ for the entire season.
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    Stereotypical Asian Guy AztecWildcat's Avatar
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    Why does AG shoot 3s?
    I blame ESPN, PAC-12 Network, Larry Scott, East Coast Bias, Direct TV, Dish Network, The Honda Center, PAC-12 Refs, and Mark Lyons

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    Rondae was 4-9 from the free throw line last night; after starting 0-5.

    After he missed the 5th one, Miller called a timeout, laid/got into him, Rondae seemingly went back to the "shoulder shimmy" that Miller had him go away from, and he made his next 4.

    Confidence goes a long way.

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    Wildcat Fan desertdink's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AztecWildcat View Post
    Why does AG shoot 3s?
    I suspect, as with his FTs in practice, he has no trouble making them (as opposed to games). I suspect if you shoot a certain percentage in practice, Miller probably green-lights you to try and make open 3s in games. They all know that throwing up junk that Miller hasn't approved will get you the pine at the next available opportunity.

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    Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
    your reading comprehension sux, others started the hero ball chain reaction not zeus, but what zeus did was totally uncharacteristic of anything I've seen zeus do this season and I have to attribute it to what other did before him. He was more of an example of what happens to your teammates when you play hero ball. Essentially he watched 4-5 previous possessions where teammates decided they were going to create their own shots and failed miserably, so he said **** it and tried it himself.
    no my reading comprehension is just fine. I think it's your breakdown of Zeus's basketball plays that "sux". What play are you referring to, anyway? I interpreted it as the one where he went for the two handed dunk over the other big white guy, and clearly got fouled (no call). If that's what you are referring to, not only was it a perfectly fine shot, it is the type of aggressiveness we need from Zeus at ALL TIMES

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    Originally Posted by CALDWELL View Post
    When I saw AG shoot that air ball three, it pretty much set a tone for what was to come, and it came.

    The team needs to let TJ do his job period. It's worked all season. I don't want to see RHJ get a rebound on the defensive end and drive the ball all the way back and transition for a hero score again, it looks sloppy at best most of the time. The ONLY person that should get the green light for hero ball is TJ, if he can't find the perfect option I want him shooting it.

    This offense has and should continue to flow through TJ for the entire season.
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    Stereotypical Asian Guy AztecWildcat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by desertdink View Post
    I suspect, as with his FTs in practice, he has no trouble making them (as opposed to games). I suspect if you shoot a certain percentage in practice, Miller probably green-lights you to try and make open 3s in games. They all know that throwing up junk that Miller hasn't approved will get you the pine at the next available opportunity.
    Man I hope so. It's tough to watch because they miss so badly during the game.

    I'm just worried because if AG is shooting a 3 and it misses that's one less big to rebound.
    Last edited by AztecWildcat; 01-30-2014 at 08:26 AM.
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    Here is an example of good ball movement by the team yesterday

    Nick dribbles into the paint. Stanford walls up. At this moment instead of trying to drive into 2 or 3 defenders, Nick realizes there is someone open and he passes to an open AG who passes to an even more wide open shooter in Brandon. He takes a shot, while AG moves back to the bucket to help with rebounding. Kaleb is in perfect position for the rebound and dish to an open Nick.

    3 point make.

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    Originally Posted by ared4 View Post
    Nick?
    Or Nick when TJ is on the bench.

    My point is is I'd like the ball to always touch TJ's hands in this motion offense, always. He has the IQ and ability to find the best option as evidenced all season.

    But I could agree red, NJ is about the ONLY CAT I'd feel confident with that will create his own shot and finish from end to end(Although his handles could be suspect at times). That's something I probably wouldn't have said before these last couple games where he's shown major improvement in that aspect of his game.
    #4Bashley

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    I'm pretty sure that during halftime Coach Miller told them that he required a minimum of four passes in the half-court set. They started the second half with that mentality but slowly got away from it until about 5 minutes to go.
    If you disagree with me, you are either a racist, a homophobe, or most likely, both.

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    Originally Posted by AztecWildcat View Post
    Here is an example of good ball movement by the team yesterday

    Nick dribbles into the paint. Stanford walls up. At this moment instead of trying to drive into 2 or 3 defenders, Nick realizes there is someone open and he passes to an open AG who passes to an even more wide open shooter in Brandon. He takes a shot, while AG moves back to the bucket to help with rebounding. Kaleb is in perfect position for the rebound and dish to an open Nick.

    3 point make.

    http://www.snappytv.com/snaps/johnso...14-on-espn2_yn

    You mean it was not good ball movement when Gordon continually drove into the key to dunk the ball only to realize his man was waiting for him to draw the charge. No one comes out to guard Gordon cause they know that the only shot he can make is a dunk so he desperately looks around for someone to pass it to but he is wide open so his team mates expect him to take the chippy 5 footer so they don't move to get open?

    I have never seen such a discombobulated mess in my life. Our defense must be the best in the nation to win that game last night or Stanford is worse than us on O.

    OK, I feel better now, lets go beat Cal. If ASU can do it...


    But really, how is our offense going to do any thing if Gordon gets played like Stanford did last night. He had two wide open free throw shots that no one even tried to close on him at the end of the game and clanked them both. That is what we are going to see going forward until he can hit at least a chip shot to keep his defender honest. The only other alternative is to put Zuess on the bench and have Gordon stay down on the post.

    If Gordon wants to play anything other than the 5 he has to start making some shots. Even a 5 footer would be good.

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    Gordon has no post moves. Check out the DraftExpress breakdown that was posted yesterday. He shoots, I believe, under 30% on post-ups. We need Brandon and Zeus to get the touches on the blocks, not AG. When AG is wide open from 10 feet, we need the other players to move and get open so he can deliver them the ball in position to score.

    Overall, ball and player movement have been subpar since the middle of the Colorado game. We haven't been generating high-quality shots, which is a much bigger concern than any individual struggles putting the ball through the hoop.

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    Originally Posted by JS Esq. View Post
    Gordon has no post moves. Check out the DraftExpress breakdown that was posted yesterday. He shoots, I believe, under 30% on post-ups. We need Brandon and Zeus to get the touches on the blocks, not AG. When AG is wide open from 10 feet, we need the other players to move and get open so he can deliver them the ball in position to score.

    Overall, ball and player movement have been subpar since the middle of the Colorado game. We haven't been generating high-quality shots, which is a much bigger concern than any individual struggles putting the ball through the hoop.
    I am aware of Gordon's lack of post moves but at least he wouldn't have to draw his defender out to not clog up the O. That is a major problem with our O. Gordon's defender can sag so much that it clogs everything up. The defenders on our better shooters can play really tight because they know Gordon's defender will be behind them encase of Penetration. It makes it really hard to pass to the post because Gordon's defender is always in the key helping. I realize it is not a good idea to take out Zuess and have Gordon play the post. Until Gordon can shoot any kind of jump shot at any distance our O is going to struggle against better teams.

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    I think AG was trying to put up numbers since this will be his only trip with the Cats to his hometown. I felt like he was trying harder to get involved in a game than he's had all season long and don't think it will continue.

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    Originally Posted by Internal Malfunction View Post
    Can anyone take a stab at the reason we've been playing hero ball the last two games? Is it the other team? Press? NBA bug? Circles of influence?

    Tonight, almost every time we took an in rhythm shot within the flow of our offense, something good happened. We can't play hero ball and shoot poorly from the line and expect to win many more of these.

    Lastly, thank you NJ. If anyone could rightfully play hero ball out there it would be you, yet you refuse to do so.
    I will say because we were nationally televised on ESPN.

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