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  1. #1
    Commissioner ACE's Avatar
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    I expect Aaron Gordon and Brandon Ashley to go pro. They have not made anything official and they are not the only two who could leave.

    This is just my personal opinion but you know the weight that holds.

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    Well, then, looks like they better win a National Championship.
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    Originally Posted by ACE View Post
    I expect Aaron Gordon and Brandon Ashley to go pro. They have not made anything official and they are not the only two who could leave.

    This is just my personal opinion but you know the weight that holds.
    I wonder what NJ is thinking at this time. His stock continues to rise and it seems like his name is getting around a little more these days. His efficiency numbers are outstanding as Kenpom has him at #3 below McDermott and Parker but above guys like Russ Smith, C.J. Fair and Marcus Smart.

    By the end of the year, I'd have to think his stock will likely peak with little chance to improve his senior year and a risk to drop back if he doesn't match the same efficiency as this season. Will be interesting to see what he decides to do. . .

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    I wish them continued focus on each game all the way through the tournament and the best luck in their professional careers!
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    Originally Posted by Nickelback View Post
    I wonder what NJ is thinking at this time. His stock continues to rise and it seems like his name is getting around a little more these days. His efficiency numbers are outstanding as Kenpom has him at #3 below McDermott and Parker but above guys like Russ Smith, C.J. Fair and Marcus Smart.

    By the end of the year, I'd have to think his stock will likely peak with little chance to improve his senior year and a risk to drop back if he doesn't match the same efficiency as this season. Will be interesting to see what he decides to do. . .
    He could also not be seen as a lock for the first round (where the guarantee money is) due to his size for his position, and depth of this draft. Id say if at the end of the year he is getting solid feedback as a first rounder he could go, but Im not sure he will see that.

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    Originally Posted by Nickelback View Post
    I wonder what NJ is thinking at this time. His stock continues to rise and it seems like his name is getting around a little more these days. His efficiency numbers are outstanding as Kenpom has him at #3 below McDermott and Parker but above guys like Russ Smith, C.J. Fair and Marcus Smart.

    By the end of the year, I'd have to think his stock will likely peak with little chance to improve his senior year and a risk to drop back if he doesn't match the same efficiency as this season. Will be interesting to see what he decides to do. . .
    even with the rise in his stock, he's still viewed as a borderline 1st/2nd round pick. We'll have to see where it peaks

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    I hope Brandon doesn't leave but either way I wish the best to both players. BTFD guys!

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    Originally Posted by Pay the Choll Toll View Post
    He could also not be seen as a lock for the first round (where the guarantee money is) due to his size for his position, and depth of this draft. Id say if at the end of the year he is getting solid feedback as a first rounder he could go, but Im not sure he will see that.
    Originally Posted by Palpalife View Post
    even with the rise in his stock, he's still viewed as a borderline 1st/2nd round pick. We'll have to see where it peaks
    No question he will be a borderline 1st Rounder at best and most likely an early 2nd round pick. . . I just don't believe there is anything the guy could possibly do in his Senior year to improve his stock.

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    Thanks ACE. Giving more credence to rumors and what everyone suspects. I'd say if Brandon plans on going he needs to stop having games where he doesn't seem to do much for long stretches. He needs to watch Aaron and remember that if he plays like Aaron, it will make his stock rise. That will benefit this team, but mostly it will benefit his plans for his future. JMO

  10. #10
    KillerCarlson
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    Offensively, Ashley is the most ready pro but he has glaring weaknesses on defense and as some of you have alluded to he has gaps in games where he tends to have mental lapses. It's the same aloofness that got him cut from the USA team that Gordon eventually won a Gold medal and MVP honors. Ashley also needs to vastly improve his ball handling skills to play the 3 in the NBA. He is way too small and way too finesse for the 4 spot in the NBA.

    When it's all said and done, I think Gordon will definitely go pro as he'll be a lock for the NBA lottery and you can't walk away from a $6 Million minimum guarantee over the next 3 years of your life. For a player that heavily relies on his intensity and giving 100% effort all the time/anytime, there is too much risk to return IF he is guaranteed to go in the lottery. Risk of injury, and risk of not improving on the things that NBA execs want to see improvement on: i.e shooting.

    Ashley and Johnson will both flirt with the NBA and most likely too the point where they have their names submitted, but don't hire agents. In the end, I see them returning. Ashley will likely be a first rounder in 2015 draft, and whether its 2014 or 2015 Nick Johnson will always be a border line late 1st rounder or early 2nd round pick. He loves the college experience too much, and I see him returning much like Corey Brewer and the rest of the Florida cast did. Even if Arizona does make the Final 4 this year, I see Nick returning wanting to either A) Repeat as National Champions or B) Make it back to the Final 4 and try and win a championship

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    I still don't see Ashley as NBA ready but then again what the **** do I know...

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    Originally Posted by BillBrasky3 View Post
    I still don't see Ashley as NBA ready but then again what the **** do I know...
    When will people understand that the NBA doesn't draft on "being ready?"

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    Win the national title and I would salute everyone on the team going pro.

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    Originally Posted by Statfreak101 View Post
    When will people understand that the NBA doesn't draft on "being ready?"
    I understand it just fine. What attributes does Ashley have that makes him more intriguing to NBA scouts? I see an undersized 4 who has nice range but is not quick enough to play the 3...

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    Originally Posted by BillBrasky3 View Post
    I understand it just fine. What attributes does Ashley have that makes him more intriguing to NBA scouts? I see an undersized 4 who has nice range but is not quick enough to play the 3...
    Of course people have to be "ready enough." Aaron Gordon wasn't going to make an NBA roster at age 13, right? I think what these kids need to realize is that even a lottery pick drafted - like AG - on high athleticism/motor/IQ, low skill is not necessarily better off long-term. I can understand NJ going more than Gordon or Rondae, to be honest. AG is barely 18, has a long way to go with his skill set, and as much as drafts are decided by upper management, a player's fate in the NBA is often decided by the coach. AG would get annihilated right now in the NBA. His offensive wild drives would end in defensive rebounds more than AG follow-ups, and there are few coaches who can put their jobs on the line to let a kid develop from where AG is. Better off staying and developing some basic offensive skills that don't involve dominating under-sized or slower guys. How about learn to make a shot first, solve the riddle of the free throw line...

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    So the expectation is that SJ and CV will have to make up 25 pts a game if, by luck, Nick stays. Doable without a doubt with TJ still runing the floor. That is a lot of defensive hustle and rebounding to give up though.

    Brash, despite not being consistent, is the most well rounded and ready of those 2. His length should make up for his height. Would really like to see AG back next year. I think he has plenty of room to grow and still be a top pick.

    Injuries seem to happen more when you are worried about them or you change your game. As long as these kids are letting the game come to them and working within the flow of the system, i dont see draft stock inhibiting injuries being an issue.

    Bring him back for another year Coach. Let's do this thing 2x!!!

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    Why do SJ and CV need to average 25? Can't Zues and RJ increase their scoring as well? TJ and GY?


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    Originally Posted by anguskahn View Post
    Why do SJ and CV need to average 25? Can't Zues and RJ increase their scoring as well? TJ and GY?


    Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk
    agreed. also, if you have seen CV on Findlay this year you should be quite aware that he isn't exactly the type of "impact" freshman that AG, Rondae are, and that SJ will be. Dude will be great eventually, but I find it hard to believe he produces much next year.

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    Originally Posted by Nickelback View Post
    No question he will be a borderline 1st Rounder at best and most likely an early 2nd round pick. . . I just don't believe there is anything the guy could possibly do in his Senior year to improve his stock.
    Leading teams to 2 consecutive national championships will probably "improve" his stock. Just saying.

    I think people are underestimating NJ's draft prospects. If he leads this team to a title this season or next (or both?) - there is a solid chance he'd end up a mid first rounder. Work ethic, defense, drive - teams are starting to realize those things usually can't be taught AFTER a guy goes pro. He'll probably be a combine stud (outside of mediocre reach) - he'll outjump & out bench pretty much every guard.

    Also, look at it this way if he stayed- some might think NJ might not help his draft prospects - but I don't see how he'd hurt them either. Why not be BMOC one more year if you ain't lottery - go for that championship, break a number of records, have ESPN fawn all over your highlights, etc another full season. He might be next season's Doug McDermott - where everyone wants to hand him the POY before the season even starts. Writers and fans LOVE seniors - especially highlight reel, smiling, team leader, do everything types.

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    Originally Posted by Statman View Post
    Leading teams to 2 consecutive national championships will probably "improve" his stock. Just saying.

    I think people are underestimating NJ's draft prospects. If he leads this team to a title this season or next (or both?) - there is a solid chance he'd end up a mid first rounder. Work ethic, defense, drive - teams are starting to realize those things usually can't be taught AFTER a guy goes pro. He'll probably be a combine stud (outside of mediocre reach) - he'll outjump & out bench pretty much every guard.

    Also, look at it this way if he stayed- some might think NJ might not help his draft prospects - but I don't see how he'd hurt them either. Why not be BMOC one more year if you ain't lottery - go for that championship, break a number of records, have ESPN fawn all over your highlights, etc another full season. He might be next season's Doug McDermott - where everyone wants to hand him the POY before the season even starts. Writers and fans LOVE seniors - especially highlight reel, smiling, team leader, do everything types.
    I will fully admit I rarely watch the NBA so I haven't really seen him play, but is there a chance NJ could have a Damian Lillard type arc? Both are about the same size, both have similar junior year #'s. I'm not saying Nick can average 20 PPG in the NBA, but I'm not saying he can't either. Am I crazy??
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    Originally Posted by El Cunado View Post
    I will fully admit I rarely watch the NBA so I haven't really seen him play, but is there a chance NJ could have a Damian Lillard type arc? Both are about the same size, both have similar junior year #'s. I'm not saying Nick can average 20 PPG in the NBA, but I'm not saying he can't either. Am I crazy??
    Guess I am crazy, just saw Lillard only played 10 games his JR year
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    I'm not sure what the stats say, but I think after another year NJ could be an Oladipo type in the NBA. Ok, have at it.
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    Originally Posted by El Cunado View Post
    I will fully admit I rarely watch the NBA so I haven't really seen him play, but is there a chance NJ could have a Damian Lillard type arc? Both are about the same size, both have similar junior year #'s. I'm not saying Nick can average 20 PPG in the NBA, but I'm not saying he can't either. Am I crazy??
    you might not be crazy, but THIS stance is most certainly that. Damian Lillard could be a perennial All-Star, and is a pure point guard with incredible range. Nick hits clutch threes, but lets not start calling him a knock down shooter or anything...

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    Originally Posted by bengcord3 View Post
    you might not be crazy, but THIS stance is most certainly that. Damian Lillard could be a perennial All-Star, and is a pure point guard with incredible range. Nick hits clutch threes, but lets not start calling him a knock down shooter or anything...
    Like I said, I haven't seen him play much, just going off of his size and college #'s. Lillard didn't rack up insane assist totals or wasn't a lights out shooter either, looks to me to be more of a volume shooter. But I have to guess that was more out of necessity than an actual skill set and I would assume he has a much purer stroke than Nick. But shooting is something that can improve drastically with the right coaching and endless hours of practice, whereas leaping and athleticism cannot be taught.

    Again I will say though, I probably am crazy....I was just trying to find a comparison based off of size and #'s. I highly doubt Nick will ever approach any of the #'s Lillard is already putting up in the league.
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    Originally Posted by bengcord3 View Post
    you might not be crazy, but THIS stance is most certainly that. Damian Lillard could be a perennial All-Star, and is a pure point guard with incredible range. Nick hits clutch threes, but lets not start calling him a knock down shooter or anything...
    or a point guard.

    Oladipo is taller than Nick by a few inches (Nick is NOT 6'3"). If Nick were taller, I'd feel a lot better about his NBA prospects. He's just too small to be a legit 2-guard and not good enough to be a PG. At least not yet. I'm sure he'll be drafted probably in the late first round if he decides to go this year and maybe in the lottery if he comes back and gets even better and next year's lottery is weak. But I am skeptical that he'll ever succeed in the NBA. I believe if you are elite at one thing, you can stick in the NBA. I just don't know that Nick is elite at anything. Maybe he'll become a 3-and-D player though. Who knows. All I know is as much as he drove me nuts his freshman year and even a little bit last year, I'm truly loving watching him this year and would not be disappointed one bit if he came back.
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    Originally Posted by Statman View Post
    Leading teams to 2 consecutive national championships will probably "improve" his stock. Just saying.

    I think people are underestimating NJ's draft prospects. If he leads this team to a title this season or next (or both?) - there is a solid chance he'd end up a mid first rounder. Work ethic, defense, drive - teams are starting to realize those things usually can't be taught AFTER a guy goes pro. He'll probably be a combine stud (outside of mediocre reach) - he'll outjump & out bench pretty much every guard.

    Also, look at it this way if he stayed- some might think NJ might not help his draft prospects - but I don't see how he'd hurt them either. Why not be BMOC one more year if you ain't lottery - go for that championship, break a number of records, have ESPN fawn all over your highlights, etc another full season. He might be next season's Doug McDermott - where everyone wants to hand him the POY before the season even starts. Writers and fans LOVE seniors - especially highlight reel, smiling, team leader, do everything types.
    Statman - you are moving well beyond the scope of my original point which is simply that NJ is probably risking too much to stick around for another season. Even if I'm underestimating his current draft prospects, the fact remains that given what he is accomplishing on the floor this season combined with what our team is accomplishing, there are not a lot of solid reasons to suggest that sticking around another year is going to help him improve his draft prospects where ever and what ever they end up being at the end of the season.

    Would I want NJ to stick around another year to win a championship (hopefully a second straight championship)? Absolutely. But it is a big risk to take given how amazing the guy has been this season by every statistical measure.

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    You'd have to imagine that many NBA teams would feel uncomfortable playing Nick at the 2, simply because he is physically undersized. And its not just height and weight - there he's about on par with Shannon Brown, Tony Allen, Eric Gordon, Oladipo, etc. Those guys are "small" for the two in the NBA. But what they have, which Nick lacks, is insane wingspans of 6'9" and above. I believe Nick is 6'6" down the arms. His athleticism is a boost, for sure, and he has been a lockdown defender in college based on effort and IQ, so its possible to see him continue that trajectory. But its hard to believe he could be Tony Allen 2.0 or Eric Gordon 2.0 (3 and D guy) without the physical gift of an exceptional wingspan.

    What he could do is take the Russell Westbrook route and transition to the point. He's shown great floor leadership this year and has been capable as a passer and an initiator. Could another year of this role help him? Maybe, but its not like the point guard position is scheduled to loosen up. TJ will be back, we'll have a back-up PG in PJC as well as a ton of SGs ready to step in. The spotlight and footage he's getting this year could be enough to show his future as a combo-guard who can D up, shoot efficiently, and work without fuss.

    On the flip side of the undersized argument, Ben McLemore got a pass last year for being a bit undersized as a two and put up similar offensive stats to Nick this year but wasn't nearly the defender or leader that Nick is today. Bradley Beal is only an inch or so bigger (height and wings) than Nick and again was not on Nick's level even in terms of scoring and passing. Throw Deion Waters into the mix as well.

    For fun, I'll gamble that Nick goes this year and gets plucked in the middle/end of the first round. I don't see much or any benefit to his draft stock in staying if our current success continues. Last year Golden State took a chance on a Nick sized guard from Serbia in the first round, I'd venture that someone will see the potential in our boy and fall in love with his intangibles like we have.
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    I think NJ is going to be in a similar position as Russ Smith was last year. NJ has much more of an NBA body than Smith, but Smith was the best player on the National Champs and was not going to be a 1st round pick because he is a small 2 without 1 skills. Maybe Miller can convince NJ to stay if he is on the fence by promising NJ more minutes at the 1 next season to improve his draft position...

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    Originally Posted by El Cunado View Post
    I will fully admit I rarely watch the NBA so I haven't really seen him play, but is there a chance NJ could have a Damian Lillard type arc? Both are about the same size, both have similar junior year #'s. I'm not saying Nick can average 20 PPG in the NBA, but I'm not saying he can't either. Am I crazy??
    Yes, NJ could have a Lillard type arc - imo. Not saying it WILL happen, but it's in the realm of possibility.

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    Originally Posted by bengcord3 View Post
    you might not be crazy, but THIS stance is most certainly that. Damian Lillard could be a perennial All-Star, and is a pure point guard with incredible range. Nick hits clutch threes, but lets not start calling him a knock down shooter or anything...
    Nobody was saying that about Lillard after his junior year in college, especially coming off injury.

    Only averaged 4 apg and a < 2 a/to ratio in college as a senior. NOt really "pure" PG #'s.

    Lillard never shot over 40% from 3 until college until his senior year, when he shot 41%. He may have incredible range, but he was no Salim in college.

    Lillard, on average, faced weaker comp in college than NJ has.

    Lillards ast & TO averages this year are almost exactly the same as teammate SF Batum's (under 6 apg) - I wouldn't call that a "pure" PG.

    Now, don't get me wrong, Lillard IS now above borderline All Star - and very few players ever see that. There's a better than average chance for sure that NJ won't ever be that good in the NBA. BUT, comparing a Junior NJ to a Junior Lillard - there is a comp there.

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    Originally Posted by Nickelback View Post
    Would I want NJ to stick around another year to win a championship (hopefully a second straight championship)? Absolutely. But it is a big risk to take given how amazing the guy has been this season by every statistical measure.
    A BIG risk is Noah & Horford, Blake Griffin, Marcus Smart, etc passing up HIGH lottery positions to come back.

    Passing up at the VERY best mid first (I'm one of the few that says it's possible btw) and more likely late first/early 2nd isn't some big risk - especially for a kid that ain't putting up 20 & 6. There's room for statistical improvement (at face value at least, the box score stats - with AG & maybe others leaving).

    NJ is the very prototype of player that usually succeeds when he returns - the guy that becomes very well known nationally as a junior (not projected as a high pick - but high enough to look "selfless" by returning), is fun to watch ("love for the game" type) so the media adores him, and EVERYONE want's to make him THE guy in all their press as a senior. Oh yeah, he could lead a team that has a real shot at (another?) championship.

    If he's gonna be lottery after this season, well, all bets are off. CJ McCollum was lottery.

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